A lot of this resonates, Claude. I appreciate your vulnerability. I’m with you- out there - in it for loving other humans and not for any sort of label. And the journey continues. I’m curious where we will be a year from now 😊
Shanna, thank you for giving this piece your time and for the kind compliments. The journey does continue, and I also wonder where I'll be a year from now or farther out. I've said to others that anything is possible and I could have some epiphany that leads me back to Christianity. If it doesn't happen, I'm at peace with that. I continue to try to stay comfortable in not knowing, not labeled and open to find what's true to me, even if it's just bumbling around and not subscribed to any isms.
You nailed it again. Thank you for sharing your experience. There certainly are many who do not, would not or cannot understand yet where you (and many of us) are currently and that is ok. I do believe there are many who are taking courage knowing they are not alone as you share things that were once unutterable and yet perhaps common to hearts that have been enlarged to love more. I echo Jen in the gratitude to be able to deconstruct in a safe environment of unconditional love that you have been unwavering in expressing.
John, thank you so much. Getting to know you and and take in what you experienced on your journey has been a big help. You were seeing things in a way I hadn't, or maybe couldn't see without you. I've found so much more to consider as a result of our discussions, and even if I don't land where you are, or can't fully grasp your perspective at that moment, it still leaves me with something valuable, and often snaps into place later if I initially didn't get it. Thanks for giving this piece a read, your consideration and your compliments.
This was an amazing read, Claude. I was nodding my head through so much of it because it really resonated with me.
If deconstructing means finding your true north moral wise, the painful ride is worth it. I’m just glad I get to deconstruct beside you and those that are safe.
Wow! Thanks Jen. I really appreciate that. It's funny how so many of us who may have only met over the interwebs have so many common experiences and discoveries. It's been invaluable to deconstruct with you, Jared, Shanna, John, Teena and others. It can be daunting but having fellow travelers helps make it manageable. I think of others who left decades ago before this massive awakening in the 2x2s and bravely experienced freefall on their own. I went from wagging my head at them while I was in the thing, to admiring them more and more all the time.
Amen Claude, very relatable. Your description of your journey doesn't read like you set out on it in error, more like it was inevitable and maybe a little delayed getting started on it? I think now is the point where we start reading Nietzsche 🙂
Jared, thank you. It's interesting. Pieces didn't begin to fall into place about what was happening earlier until I left the cult. Then, I just stopped trying to hope for or force something to happen that didn't seem likely. The absence of judging my goodness or worthiness based on this connection allowed me to accept that I didn't have it and it was ok if it didn't exist. Nietzsche seems intimidating but we're experienced King James Version Bible readers, so we should be up to the task. Ha ha ha
Hey peeps also writing on Substack! (Do I have everyone? Comment below.)
I’m putting together a special edition of my Substack’s 500-word flash series, and I want to dedicate this one to us—2x2 survivors. Our voices. Our truth. Our way out and through.
If you’re up for it, I’d love for you to write a short, sharp 500-word flash essay on how you’re recovering, finding your badass, kicking ass, and aligning with your true self. No rules beyond that—just raw, real, and yours.
I’ll publish them together in one powerful feature, amplifying what was never meant to be spoken. Because we all know—freedom is contagious.
I’d love to receive these asap but end of March latest. DM me if you’re in and for deets on where to send!
This could end up as seed for larger project. Woot! ⚡️🌻⚡️
Terrific read! I relate to so much of what you said and I am probably in pretty much the same space, except it took me decades to get there! I left the 2x2's 28 years ago. What a trip!
Renee, thanks so much for giving your time to this piece and your encouraging compliment. Reading about others experiences continues to be illuminating and if your story is posted somewhere, please point me to it. I'd love to read it if it is. In another reply I made to a comment here, I said that we who've left recently have the benefit of a collection of online forums connecting 2x2 and those adjacent to it. There are more resources out there about the cult and abusive religious systems in general, all connected over the web.
I've thought about you and others who left decades ago without the resources, support networks and many of the resources available now. I admire all of you for navigating as successfully as you have without all of the benefits many of us exploit now. My seemingly rapid progression to where I am isn't really anything I did. I credit it to conversations with many others who were willing to be vulnerably open, all of us sharing without judgement and recommending research and media that could help others. I'm glad you liked this post.
Thanks for your kind response. Yes, there are so many resources and connections available now, but it's a difficult journey for everyone. It was probably more lonely for those of us who left the 2x2's decades ago. I don't know about navigating successfully. It felt like a big muddle through an existential crisis for a long time, which is not a great space to be in when you have two young daughters caught in the aftermath. And the insights keep coming. I write about some of this on my Substack and I'm also writing a memoir.
once again, a tremendous read. The missing "voice of God" really resonated with me. I lost my faith really early, but didn't really realize it till I was in my early teens. I was raised very high church Episcopalian, and I was entranced with the ritual and the cadences of the Book of Common Prayer, but that was aesthetics, not religion. In my early teens I had a really devout friend; what she described in her relation to her God was completely unfamiliar. I struggled, then decided my God was actually absent.
I didn't really feel hostility towards believers; they were just in a different category from me. That was before some "believers" started openly using religion to hound others. Now I would say that I am anti-Christianist as I am anti-Islamist and frankly any other -ist---and that includes any programatic atheist who tries to force an unbelief on me. Religion just isn't relevant. The ETHICS behind the teachings of love and empathy, whether Christian or Muslim or any other religion that emphasizes it--yes, that appeals, is relevant. Just no Big Daddy out there requiring it.
Susan, as always thank you for the compliment and for giving this piece your thoughtful consideration. I've never come away from reading your comments without brain food and another perspective to consider.
The silence where the voice of God was supposed to be was something I thought was rare among worshippers in what I was in. So many testified about hearing God's voice so clearly, and on a daily basis, that I figured I must be defective. It was years later when talking to a married couple my age that was in it that raised my antennae.
VOG came up, and I confessed that I didn't hear it like others said they did. They both snorted and chuckled and looked at me like I believed in Santa Claus. Then, the husband said that people just say that but he doubted anyone really heard it. I replied that there seems to be quite a few who are sure that they have and they both waved me off like a naive child. I concluded that they and I were in the same spiritual funk, and that was why they didn't hear it. I intended that if I really tried that I would hear it like others claimed. Nope.
There's something about the pattern in a worship service that does make one think they're experiencing something, when it seems to me how to be a combination of inputs to manipulate your perception to believe that. My thinking could change again, but at this point, I'm with you that if it's working for you, that's great but don't try and force it on me or anyone else.
A lot of this resonates, Claude. I appreciate your vulnerability. I’m with you- out there - in it for loving other humans and not for any sort of label. And the journey continues. I’m curious where we will be a year from now 😊
Shanna, thank you for giving this piece your time and for the kind compliments. The journey does continue, and I also wonder where I'll be a year from now or farther out. I've said to others that anything is possible and I could have some epiphany that leads me back to Christianity. If it doesn't happen, I'm at peace with that. I continue to try to stay comfortable in not knowing, not labeled and open to find what's true to me, even if it's just bumbling around and not subscribed to any isms.
You nailed it again. Thank you for sharing your experience. There certainly are many who do not, would not or cannot understand yet where you (and many of us) are currently and that is ok. I do believe there are many who are taking courage knowing they are not alone as you share things that were once unutterable and yet perhaps common to hearts that have been enlarged to love more. I echo Jen in the gratitude to be able to deconstruct in a safe environment of unconditional love that you have been unwavering in expressing.
John, thank you so much. Getting to know you and and take in what you experienced on your journey has been a big help. You were seeing things in a way I hadn't, or maybe couldn't see without you. I've found so much more to consider as a result of our discussions, and even if I don't land where you are, or can't fully grasp your perspective at that moment, it still leaves me with something valuable, and often snaps into place later if I initially didn't get it. Thanks for giving this piece a read, your consideration and your compliments.
This was an amazing read, Claude. I was nodding my head through so much of it because it really resonated with me.
If deconstructing means finding your true north moral wise, the painful ride is worth it. I’m just glad I get to deconstruct beside you and those that are safe.
Wow! Thanks Jen. I really appreciate that. It's funny how so many of us who may have only met over the interwebs have so many common experiences and discoveries. It's been invaluable to deconstruct with you, Jared, Shanna, John, Teena and others. It can be daunting but having fellow travelers helps make it manageable. I think of others who left decades ago before this massive awakening in the 2x2s and bravely experienced freefall on their own. I went from wagging my head at them while I was in the thing, to admiring them more and more all the time.
Amen Claude, very relatable. Your description of your journey doesn't read like you set out on it in error, more like it was inevitable and maybe a little delayed getting started on it? I think now is the point where we start reading Nietzsche 🙂
Jared, thank you. It's interesting. Pieces didn't begin to fall into place about what was happening earlier until I left the cult. Then, I just stopped trying to hope for or force something to happen that didn't seem likely. The absence of judging my goodness or worthiness based on this connection allowed me to accept that I didn't have it and it was ok if it didn't exist. Nietzsche seems intimidating but we're experienced King James Version Bible readers, so we should be up to the task. Ha ha ha
So good! I’d love for you to contribute:
Hey peeps also writing on Substack! (Do I have everyone? Comment below.)
I’m putting together a special edition of my Substack’s 500-word flash series, and I want to dedicate this one to us—2x2 survivors. Our voices. Our truth. Our way out and through.
If you’re up for it, I’d love for you to write a short, sharp 500-word flash essay on how you’re recovering, finding your badass, kicking ass, and aligning with your true self. No rules beyond that—just raw, real, and yours.
I’ll publish them together in one powerful feature, amplifying what was never meant to be spoken. Because we all know—freedom is contagious.
I’d love to receive these asap but end of March latest. DM me if you’re in and for deets on where to send!
This could end up as seed for larger project. Woot! ⚡️🌻⚡️
Terrific read! I relate to so much of what you said and I am probably in pretty much the same space, except it took me decades to get there! I left the 2x2's 28 years ago. What a trip!
Renee, thanks so much for giving your time to this piece and your encouraging compliment. Reading about others experiences continues to be illuminating and if your story is posted somewhere, please point me to it. I'd love to read it if it is. In another reply I made to a comment here, I said that we who've left recently have the benefit of a collection of online forums connecting 2x2 and those adjacent to it. There are more resources out there about the cult and abusive religious systems in general, all connected over the web.
I've thought about you and others who left decades ago without the resources, support networks and many of the resources available now. I admire all of you for navigating as successfully as you have without all of the benefits many of us exploit now. My seemingly rapid progression to where I am isn't really anything I did. I credit it to conversations with many others who were willing to be vulnerably open, all of us sharing without judgement and recommending research and media that could help others. I'm glad you liked this post.
Thanks for your kind response. Yes, there are so many resources and connections available now, but it's a difficult journey for everyone. It was probably more lonely for those of us who left the 2x2's decades ago. I don't know about navigating successfully. It felt like a big muddle through an existential crisis for a long time, which is not a great space to be in when you have two young daughters caught in the aftermath. And the insights keep coming. I write about some of this on my Substack and I'm also writing a memoir.
once again, a tremendous read. The missing "voice of God" really resonated with me. I lost my faith really early, but didn't really realize it till I was in my early teens. I was raised very high church Episcopalian, and I was entranced with the ritual and the cadences of the Book of Common Prayer, but that was aesthetics, not religion. In my early teens I had a really devout friend; what she described in her relation to her God was completely unfamiliar. I struggled, then decided my God was actually absent.
I didn't really feel hostility towards believers; they were just in a different category from me. That was before some "believers" started openly using religion to hound others. Now I would say that I am anti-Christianist as I am anti-Islamist and frankly any other -ist---and that includes any programatic atheist who tries to force an unbelief on me. Religion just isn't relevant. The ETHICS behind the teachings of love and empathy, whether Christian or Muslim or any other religion that emphasizes it--yes, that appeals, is relevant. Just no Big Daddy out there requiring it.
Susan, as always thank you for the compliment and for giving this piece your thoughtful consideration. I've never come away from reading your comments without brain food and another perspective to consider.
The silence where the voice of God was supposed to be was something I thought was rare among worshippers in what I was in. So many testified about hearing God's voice so clearly, and on a daily basis, that I figured I must be defective. It was years later when talking to a married couple my age that was in it that raised my antennae.
VOG came up, and I confessed that I didn't hear it like others said they did. They both snorted and chuckled and looked at me like I believed in Santa Claus. Then, the husband said that people just say that but he doubted anyone really heard it. I replied that there seems to be quite a few who are sure that they have and they both waved me off like a naive child. I concluded that they and I were in the same spiritual funk, and that was why they didn't hear it. I intended that if I really tried that I would hear it like others claimed. Nope.
There's something about the pattern in a worship service that does make one think they're experiencing something, when it seems to me how to be a combination of inputs to manipulate your perception to believe that. My thinking could change again, but at this point, I'm with you that if it's working for you, that's great but don't try and force it on me or anyone else.